[clean-list] Re: Any scheduled release data for Clean 2.3?

[Peter Hercek]

I second this.
Some kind of advertising (e.g. clean related paper presentations on
conferences for functional programmers or something like that) should
help most. I'm interested in Haskell too and it is definitely not
because of REPL but more because its bigger community.
Clean authors should consider advertising the new Haskell'98 aware
frontend on haskell-cafe mailing list at least. Get some papers
about how it was done, what problems there were, advantages,
disadvantages, and get them presented on conferences. Maybe some
courses for newcommers (which could be downloaded from internet)
like Mr. Peyton did would help too.

Peter.


jerzy.karczmarczuk at info.unicaen.fr wrote:
> Richard O'Keefe:
>> On 7 Nov 2008, at 8:04 pm, <jerzy.karczmarczuk at info.unicaen.fr> wrote:
>>> What about Java and C++? Not so interactive, and still quite popular.
>>
>> Perhaps you haven't heard about BlueJ?
>> http://www.bluej.org/about/what.html
>> As far as the educational advantages of a REPL go,
>> BlueJ means that Java _is_ interative.
> 
> Oh, I should have mentioned that... Yes, I know (but I don't use) BlueJ.
> I know also the C/C++ interpreters with conversational facilities, Ch and
> UnderC.
> These languages thus *may be* used interactively, very true. However, this
> is infrequent, according to several people I talked to. My point
> was that it was *NOT* the interactivity, instant command execution, etc.,
> that makes the popularity of these languages. I don't pretend to be
> categorical, the REPL is important in education (that's why we've been
> using mainly Scheme and more recently Python), but is this critical? I
> don't think so.
> ==
>> The Haskell manual has gone through several editions,
>> but each version has been complete, and well proof-read.
>> The latest Clean documentation I have is missing a
>> couple of chapters, and the sort-of-English is on
>> occasion quite jarring. 
> 
> This, *again* is also a problem of community building. In Haskell plenty
> of people write tutorials, e.g. on Monads (sometimes really awful and
> useless, but occasionally reasonable...). Young Haskell amateurs collect
> examples and comment them. All this is important.
> Clean is distributed with a nice collection of examples, I have learn quite
> a lot from them. But all that is concentrated.
> People don't know about Clean ! And the name is ambiguous.
> http://www.cleanchange.co.uk/store/index.php
> Of course, there is a Japanese site, there was a nice tutorial written by
> a fascinating Brazilian girl (additionally: specialist in Aikido fights...)
> and some other stuff. But not too much... Sorry for a personal plug-in,
> but I presented twice on the PADL workshop some applications (procedural
> textures, and musical sound generators); at least three persons told me
> that (independently of the lousy quality of my talks...) they will learn
> Clean, since it seems promising. So, again, I underline the importance of
> a community.
> Best regards.
> Jerzy Karczmarczuk