freqdescriptives/statistics
Dahlia Sharon
dahliash at STANFORD.EDU
Wed Sep 2 00:40:24 CEST 2009
Thanks Jan-Mathijs for that useful reply.
Regarding permutation analysis, we're running into some difficulty
understanding what the code does. Could you clarify these points?
1. We're using Neuromag (Vectorview 306) data, and giving the appropriate
layout file (all channels). Does fieldtrip take into account which channels
are gradiometers and which magnetometers when it calculates adjacency for
clustering?
2. How does fieldtrip calculate adjacency for channels? (time and frequency
are obvious...)
3. How is the clustering performed?
We're getting a significant cluster but it doesn't look like a single blob
in the time-frequency domain (averaging over sensors) but like two very
distant blobs, which is very strange...
On Tue, 1 Sep 2009 09:09:53 +0000, Jan-Mathijs Schoffelen
<j.schoffelen at PSY.GLA.AC.UK> wrote:
>Dear Dahlia,
>
>Hemant Bokil indeed uses the jackknife to obtain variance estimates of
>power (and coherence), see also for example his 2007 paper in
>J.Neurosci.Methods. More specifically, if your data is 'well-behaved',
>he has shown that by applying a specific correction to the power
>estimate, in combination of the jackknife, generates a test-statistic
>from a differential (i.e. contrast) power spectrum which has a
>standard normal distribution (i.e. the jackknife estimate of the
>variance is expected to be 1 and the estimate of the mean 0).
>Unfortunately, MEG data is hardly ever well-behaved, so we prefer to
>use non-parametric techniques to do statistical inference.
>Freqdescriptives in this respect still historically has the option of
>computing a jackknife estimate of the SEM of the powerspectrum/
>coherencespectrum, which can be used to compute a T-statistic across
>two conditions for example. However, I you would choose this path, you
>have to write some code which does this, because it is not in
>fieldtrip. The biascorrect option has been taken out altogether as far
>as I can see, (and had been designed only to correct the bias in the
>coherence spectra, and not in the power spectra if I remember
>correctly), and any reference in the documentation should be removed.
>Unfortunately, we did not yet have time to considerably clean up
>freqdescriptives, but this is quite high on the developer's to do list.
>The bottom line is: ignore biascorrect, and if you use the jackknife
>estimate of the SEM, you have to come up with some code of your own.
>Alternatively, you could look into freqstatistics and use
>cfg.statistic = 'indepsamplesT' / 'depsamplesT' if you want to do
>statistical inference.
>
>Best,
>
>Jan-Mathijs
>
>
>On 28 Aug 2009, at 06:34, Dahlia Sharon wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Is there a more detailed explanation of usage for the jackknife and
>> biascorrect options for freqdescriptives than the one in the
>> freqdescriptives reference
page(http://fieldtrip.fcdonders.nl/reference/freqdescriptives)?
>>
>> More specifically, are these options related to Bokil et al NeuroIm
>> 2007? How should they be employed to determine significance of
>> difference between conditions? (Is there somewhere a tutorial for
>> the use of these options analogous to the one about cluster-based
>> permutation testing?)
>>
>> Also, for the permutation analysis of TFRs
(http://fieldtrip.fcdonders.nl/tutorial/statistics?s
>> []=freqstatistics), if I don't want to employ the planar gradient
>> step (what exactly IS combineplanar? sorry I couldn't find it), can
>> I simply skip it and calculate the TFRs of the raw sensor data?
>>
>> Many thanks!
>> Dahlia.
>> ----------------------------------
>> The aim of this list is to facilitate the discussion between users
>> of the FieldTrip toolbox, to share experiences and to discuss new
>> ideas for MEG and EEG analysis.
>> http://listserv.surfnet.nl/archives/fieldtrip.html
>> http://www.ru.nl/fcdonders/fieldtrip/
>
>----------------------------------
>
>The aim of this list is to facilitate the discussion between users of
>the FieldTrip toolbox, to share experiences and to discuss new ideas
>for MEG and EEG analysis.
>
>http://listserv.surfnet.nl/archives/fieldtrip.html
>
>http://www.ru.nl/fcdonders/fieldtrip/
>
>
>
>
>
>----------------------------------
>The aim of this list is to facilitate the discussion between users of the
FieldTrip toolbox, to share experiences and to discuss new ideas for MEG
and EEG analysis. See also
http://listserv.surfnet.nl/archives/fieldtrip.html and
http://www.ru.nl/neuroimaging/fieldtrip.
>
----------------------------------
The aim of this list is to facilitate the discussion between users of the FieldTrip toolbox, to share experiences and to discuss new ideas for MEG and EEG analysis. See also http://listserv.surfnet.nl/archives/fieldtrip.html and http://www.ru.nl/neuroimaging/fieldtrip.
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