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Hi Martin,<br class="">
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<div class="">The short answer to your question “does mtmconvol remove 1/f?” is “no”, unless you specify cfg.polyremoval = 1. And even then it is not removing 1/f, but it removes the linear trend from the data, which indeed might tamper with the overall spectral
shape, depending on the data.</div>
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<div class="">Looking at your code (trying to resist the urge ask back a few questions, e.g. “what’s the question behind your question?” , “why do you want to use superlets?”, “why don’t you just use ‘mtmfft’ if you want a time unresolved spectrum?” “etc?”),
and dismissing a few suboptimalities in the definition of the options, and guessing a bit what you try to compare, I wrote some code myself:</div>
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clear <span style="color: #aa04f9" class="">all</span>;</div>
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data.time{1} = (0:99999)./1000;</div>
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data.label{1} = <span style="color: #aa04f9" class="">'chan01'</span>;</div>
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data.trial{1} = 1;</div>
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<span style="color: #0e00ff" class="">for</span> k = 2:100000</div>
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data.trial{1}(k)=randn(1)+1.*data.trial{1}(k-1);</div>
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end</div>
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cfg = [];</div>
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cfg.length = 10;</div>
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data = ft_redefinetrial(cfg, data);</div>
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data.time(2:end) = data.time(1);</div>
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cfg = [];</div>
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cfg.method = <span style="color: #aa04f9" class="">'mtmfft'</span>;</div>
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cfg.tapsmofrq = 1;</div>
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cfg.foilim = [4 100];</div>
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freqmtmfft = ft_freqanalysis(cfg, data);</div>
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% fixed window per frequency</div>
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cfg = [];</div>
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cfg.method = <span style="color: #aa04f9" class="">'mtmconvol'</span>;</div>
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cfg.foi = 4:0.5:100;</div>
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cfg.t_ftimwin = ones(1,numel(cfg.foi)).*2;</div>
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cfg.tapsmofrq = ones(1,numel(cfg.foi));</div>
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cfg.toi = 0:0.1:10;</div>
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freqmtmconvol1 = ft_freqanalysis(cfg, data);</div>
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cfg.tapsmofrq(:) = 2;</div>
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freqmtmconvol1b = ft_freqanalysis(cfg, data);</div>
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% window changes per frequency -> this leads to a per-frequency different</div>
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% intrinsic spectral resolution, which might complicate across frequency</div>
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% bin direct comparisons of magnitude because each bin actually represents</div>
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% a surface with a varying width</div>
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cfg.t_ftimwin = 4./cfg.foi;</div>
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cfg.tapsmofrq = cfg.foi.*0.5;</div>
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freqmtmconvol2 = ft_freqanalysis(cfg, data);</div>
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% wavelet</div>
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cfg = removefields(cfg, {<span style="color: #aa04f9" class="">'tapsmofrq'</span>
<span style="color: #aa04f9" class="">'t_ftimwin'</span>});</div>
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cfg.method = <span style="color: #aa04f9" class="">'wavelet'</span>;</div>
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freqwavelet = ft_freqanalysis(cfg, data);</div>
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% superlet</div>
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cfg.method = <span style="color: #aa04f9" class="">'superlet'</span>;</div>
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cfg.combine = <span style="color: #aa04f9" class="">'additive'</span>; </div>
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cfg.order = round(linspace(1,40,numel(cfg.foi)));</div>
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freqsuperlet = ft_freqanalysis(cfg, data);</div>
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figure;</div>
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subplot(221); plot(freqmtmfft.freq, log10(freqmtmfft.powspctrm));</div>
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subplot(222); plot(freqmtmconvol1.freq,log10(squeeze(nanmean(freqmtmconvol1.powspctrm,3))));</div>
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hold <span style="color: #aa04f9" class="">on</span>; plot(freqmtmconvol1.freq,log10(squeeze(nanmean(freqmtmconvol1b.powspctrm,3))));</div>
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subplot(223); plot(freqmtmconvol2.freq,log10(squeeze(nanmean(freqmtmconvol2.powspctrm,3))));</div>
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subplot(224); plot(freqwavelet.freq,log10(squeeze(nanmean(freqwavelet.powspctrm,3))));</div>
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hold <span style="color: #aa04f9" class="">on</span>; plot(freqsuperlet.freq,log10(squeeze(nanmean(freqsuperlet.powspctrm,3))));</div>
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<div class="">The resulting figure does not show anything too much out of order when comparing the different spectral analysis methods, apart from a difference in scaling, and a zigzag in the application of ‘mtmconvol’, but only when a frequency specific time
window is used. In all reconstructions, the 1/f is clearly present.</div>
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<div class=""><img apple-inline="yes" id="AA636FB7-84B2-40FF-B05C-4CA76584ECAE" class="" src="cid:CAD8ED7C-D7DE-4E07-A429-BC536CFD319A"></div>
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<div class="">So my first thought was: “shi*** data from Stockholm”. </div>
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<div class="">But only then I saw cfg.polyremoval = 1….</div>
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<div class="">If you specify this value, you actually do something that is equivalent to a ‘detrend’, which removes the linear trend from each of the epochs. Repeating the exercise above with cfg.polyremoval=1 everywhere (exercise to the reader) will not yield
qualitatively very different images using the dummy data I generated. Of note, however, will be the observation that the polyremoval does have a quantitative effect on the ‘mtm<method>’ methods, but not on the ‘wavelet/superlet’. </div>
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<div class="">Back to Stockholm...</div>
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<div class="">Best wishes,</div>
<div class="">Jan-Mathijs</div>
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<div class="">On 7 Dec 2022, at 14:26, Martin Schaefer via fieldtrip <<a href="mailto:fieldtrip@science.ru.nl" class="">fieldtrip@science.ru.nl</a>> wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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Dear fieldtrip community,</div>
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I'm getting strange results when I compute the powerspectrum of my data with the mtmconvol method.</div>
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When I plot my results over time and frequencies, I get most power in the higher frequencies, compared to the wavelet, tfr, or superlet methods where I get most power in the lower frequencies.</div>
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When I look at just the power over frequencies, it looks like mtmconvol removes 1/f. Is this indeed the case? If so, why does it do this?</div>
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I attached plots of the powerspectrum for the mtmconvol method, superlet method, and superlet method adjusted for 1/f by multiplying the power with the frequency which makes it look a lot more like the mtmconvol results.</div>
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My settings:</div>
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fieldtrip-20220401<br class="">
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<blockquote itemscope="" itemtype="https://schemas.microsoft.com/QuotedText" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; border-left-width: 3px; border-left-style: solid; border-color: rgb(200, 200, 200); padding-left: 1ex; margin-left: 0.8ex;" class="">
<div class="ContentPasted1 ContentPasted0" style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
cfg <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=""> </span><span class=""> </span> = [];</div>
<div class="ContentPasted1 ContentPasted0" style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<div class="ContentPasted1">cfg.output <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=""> </span><span class=""> </span>= 'pow';</div>
<div class="ContentPasted1">cfg.keeptrials<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=""> </span><span class=""> </span>= 'yes';</div>
<div class="ContentPasted1">cfg.channel <span class=""> </span><span class=""> </span>= 'all';</div>
<div class="ContentPasted1">cfg.method <span class=""> </span><span class=""> </span>= 'mtmconvol'; /'<span class="ContentPasted2" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important;">superlet'</span></div>
<div class="ContentPasted1">cfg.taper <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=""> </span><span class=""> </span>= 'dpss';</div>
<div class="ContentPasted1">cfg.foi <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=""> </span><span class=""> </span>= 4:.5:100;</div>
<div class="ContentPasted1">cfg.t_ftimwin <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=""> </span><span class=""> </span>= 7./cfg.foi; </div>
<div class="ContentPasted1">cfg.toi <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=""> </span><span class=""> </span>= 'all'; </div>
<div class="ContentPasted1">cfg.polyremoval<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=""> </span><span class=""> </span>= 1; </div>
<div class="ContentPasted1">cfg.pad <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=""> </span><span class=""> </span>= 11; </div>
<div class="ContentPasted1">cfg.tapsmofrq <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=""> </span><span class=""> </span>= 0.3.*cfg.foi ; </div>
<div class="ContentPasted1"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="ContentPasted1">% for 'superlet' method</div>
<div class="ContentPasted1">cfg.width <span class=""> </span><span class=""> </span> = 3; </div>
<div class="ContentPasted1">cfg.gwidth <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=""> </span><span class=""> </span>= 3; </div>
<div class="ContentPasted1">cfg.combine <span class=""> </span>= 'additive'; <br class="">
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<div class="ContentPasted1 ContentPasted0" style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
cfg.order <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=""> </span><span class=""> </span>= round(linspace(1,40,numel(cfg.foi)));<br class="">
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ft_freqanalysis(cfg, data);<br class="">
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</blockquote>
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I'm grateful for any input.</div>
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Best regards,
<div class="">Martin</div>
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<font color="#333333" size="1" class=""><span lang="en-US" style="margin: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; text-align: left; color: rgb(118, 113, 113); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important;" class="">------------</span><br class="">
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<font color="#333333" size="1" class=""><span lang="en-US" style="margin: 0px;" class=""><b class="">Martin Schaefer | </b></span></font><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: x-small;" class="">PhD Student</span></div>
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<font color="#333333" size="1" class=""><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: x-small; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important;" class=""><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.perceptionlab.se/__;!!HJOPV4FYYWzcc1jazlU!6E0MVBn8an3EeOuwe7vCNsQsy0cLjZpH2MLR-NtvwNdNIHOO6ol1OnAuFcvnb4HliBgtbubbaas5o203LnHjnfIyfMAhtNXs6kt_Bw$" class="">https://www.perceptionlab.se/</a><br class="">
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<font color="#333333" size="1" class="">Department of Clinical Neuroscience (CNS), K8</font></div>
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<font color="#333333" size="1" class="">Karolinska Institutet | 17 177 Stockholm | Nobels väg 9</font></div>
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<span lang="en-US" style="margin: 0px;" class=""><font color="gray" size="1" class=""><a href="mailto:artin.arshamian@ki.se" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="margin: 0px;" class="">martin.schaefer@ki.se</a></font></span></div>
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<span lang="en-US" style="margin: 0px;" class=""><font color="gray" size="1" class="">______________________________________<br class="">
Karolinska Institutet – a Medical University</font></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="-webkit-font-kerning: none;"><i class="">När du skickar e-post till Karolinska Institutet (KI) innebär detta att KI kommer att behandla dina personuppgifter.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></i><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://ki.se/medarbetare/integritetsskyddspolicy__;!!HJOPV4FYYWzcc1jazlU!6E0MVBn8an3EeOuwe7vCNsQsy0cLjZpH2MLR-NtvwNdNIHOO6ol1OnAuFcvnb4HliBgtbubbaas5o203LnHjnfIyfMAhtNWe5uWFFg$" class=""><span class="s2" style="text-decoration: underline; -webkit-font-kerning: none; color: rgb(0, 0, 238); -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 238);">Här
finns information om hur KI behandlar personuppgifter</span></a>.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="-webkit-font-kerning: none;"><i class="">Sending email to Karolinska Institutet (KI) will result in KI processing your personal data.</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://ki.se/en/staff/data-protection-policy__;!!HJOPV4FYYWzcc1jazlU!6E0MVBn8an3EeOuwe7vCNsQsy0cLjZpH2MLR-NtvwNdNIHOO6ol1OnAuFcvnb4HliBgtbubbaas5o203LnHjnfIyfMAhtNUtA_RZmg$" class=""><span class="s2" style="text-decoration: underline; -webkit-font-kerning: none; color: rgb(0, 0, 238); -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 238);">You
can read more about KI’s processing of personal data here</span></a>.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<span id="cid:FF856630-4EC1-46EA-A168-025904D6E17B" class=""><powerspectrum mtmconvol.jpg></span><span id="cid:EC5C9008-F7E9-440D-9C50-D5DE1C180251" class=""><powerspectrum superlet 1 over f adjusted.jpg></span><span id="cid:7411B2DB-6451-4479-A58C-40B34CEBAE44" class=""><powerspectrum
superlet.jpg></span><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">fieldtrip
mailing list</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<a href="https://mailman.science.ru.nl/mailman/listinfo/fieldtrip" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">https://mailman.science.ru.nl/mailman/listinfo/fieldtrip</a><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pcbi.1002202__;!!HJOPV4FYYWzcc1jazlU!6E0MVBn8an3EeOuwe7vCNsQsy0cLjZpH2MLR-NtvwNdNIHOO6ol1OnAuFcvnb4HliBgtbubbaas5o203LnHjnfIyfMAhtNUSrmmIgQ$" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pcbi.1002202__;!!HJOPV4FYYWzcc1jazlU!6E0MVBn8an3EeOuwe7vCNsQsy0cLjZpH2MLR-NtvwNdNIHOO6ol1OnAuFcvnb4HliBgtbubbaas5o203LnHjnfIyfMAhtNUSrmmIgQ$</a><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""></span></div>
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