<div dir="ltr">Hi Jan (and Vitória),<div><br></div><div>Thank you for the explanation!</div><div><br></div><div>Are the methods you proposed implemented in Fieldtrip in any way?</div><div><br></div><div>José</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 5:12 PM, Vitória Piai <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:v.piai.research@gmail.com" target="_blank">v.piai.research@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    Hi Jose, <br>
    <br>
    Just adding two helpful references that further clarify
    Jan-Mathijs's point:<br>
    <br>
    "Fourier-, Hilbert- and wavelet-based signal analysis: are they
    really different approaches?"<br>
    <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15262077" target="_blank">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15262077</a><br>
    <br>
    "Comparison of Hilbert transform and wavelet methods for the
    analysis of neuronal synchrony"<br>
    <a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165027001003727" target="_blank">http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165027001003727</a><br>
    <br>
    Cheers, Vitoria<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"><div><div class="h5">
      <div>On 7/9/2015 7:24 AM, Schoffelen, J.M.
        (Jan Mathijs) wrote:<br>
      </div>
      </div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div class="h5">
        
        Jose,
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>
          <div>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <div dir="ltr">
                <div>Regarding the time-resolved PLV, isn't it different
                  to do it with mtmconvol, which in my view provides a
                  TFR, than with a time signal based on the Hilbert
                  transform which estimates instantaneous phase.</div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>My doubt is that the time-resolved PLV will need
                  three or four cycles for good spectral estimation, and
                  two things can happen:</div>
                <div>1 - I analyse non-overlapping chunks and get a low
                  number of time-points.</div>
                <div>2 - I analyse highly overlapping segments and thus
                  a lot of PLV estimations but not really independent
                  from each other and therefore biasing the comparison
                  to other conditions</div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>With the Hilbert derived transform I would
                  theoretically have as many independent estimates of
                  the PLV, right?</div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>Is there a caveat in my line of thought? I might be
                  missing something here…</div>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>The thing you are missing here, is that the Hilbert
              transform also integrates over time to get an
              ‘instantaneous’ estimate of phase and amplitude (in other
              words, there’s nothing instantaneous about it). The
              difference with Fourier based methods is that you
              explicitly have to set the time window when doing a short
              window FFT, and for the Hilbert transform (which by the
              way in MATLAB is computed through a Fourier transform as
              far as I remember) one only can guess about how
              independent the time samples are from one sample to the
              next. Note, that temporal overlap is not so much an issue
              when doing statistical inference by means of permutation
              tests.</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>Best,</div>
            <div>Jan-Mathijs</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
        <br>
        <div>
          <div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word">
            <div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word">
              <div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"> Jan-Mathijs
                Schoffelen, MD PhD, Senior researcher
                <div><br>
                  Max Planck Institute for Psycholinguistics<br>
                  Donders Centre for Cognitive Neuroimaging</div>
                <div><br>
                  E-mail: <a href="mailto:j.schoffelen@donders.ru.nl" target="_blank">j.schoffelen@donders.ru.nl</a><br>
                  Telephone: <a href="tel:%2B31-24-3614793" value="+31243614793" target="_blank">+31-24-3614793</a><br>
                  <br>
                  <a href="http://www.hettaligebrein.nl" target="_blank">http://www.hettaligebrein.nl</a></div>
                <div><a href="http://www.fieldtriptoolbox.org" target="_blank">http://www.fieldtriptoolbox.org</a></div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
        <br>
        <br>
        <fieldset></fieldset>
        <br>
        </div></div><span class=""><pre>_______________________________________________
fieldtrip mailing list
<a href="mailto:fieldtrip@donders.ru.nl" target="_blank">fieldtrip@donders.ru.nl</a>
<a href="http://mailman.science.ru.nl/mailman/listinfo/fieldtrip" target="_blank">http://mailman.science.ru.nl/mailman/listinfo/fieldtrip</a></pre>
      </span></blockquote>
      <br>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
fieldtrip mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:fieldtrip@donders.ru.nl">fieldtrip@donders.ru.nl</a><br>
<a href="http://mailman.science.ru.nl/mailman/listinfo/fieldtrip" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.science.ru.nl/mailman/listinfo/fieldtrip</a><br></blockquote></div><br></div>