<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hoi Eelke,<div><br></div><div>Ik zou in eerste instantie handmatig alle geometrische objecten (headmodel, sourcemodel, grad) naar 'm' ft_convert_units'en. Dit is de conventie die de forward module verwacht. Ik gok dat de high-level functies dit niet afdwingen, waardoor de leadfields er bekaaid van af komen.</div><div><br></div><div>Gr,</div><div>JM</div><div><br><div><div>On Nov 22, 2013, at 8:41 AM, Eelke Spaak wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>Hi everyone,<br><br>Thanks very much for your great input so far! Actually, as Jörn<br>suggested, I did the very straightforward check (thanks for the tip :)<br>) of running one of our tutorial test scripts<br>(test_beamforming_extended), and it turns out this one does not<br>produce the same results as depicted here:<br><a href="http://fieldtrip.fcdonders.nl/tutorial/beamformingextended">http://fieldtrip.fcdonders.nl/tutorial/beamformingextended</a> . So, most<br>likely somewhere a bug has been introduced...<br><br>Hopefully I can find out what it is today and fix it. Will keep you posted!<br><br>Best,<br>Eelke<br><br>On 22 November 2013 08:06, "Jörn M. Horschig" <<a href="mailto:jm.horschig@donders.ru.nl">jm.horschig@donders.ru.nl</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite">Hi Eelke,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">since everyone jumped on the train, here my 2 cents:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">To verify whether this is a newly introduced bug, maybe run a tutorial test<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">script that includes beamforming. If they look alright, it gets more likely<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">that it is you or your data and not fieldtrip :) It's not definite evidence<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">of course though. SinceVitoria also experiences strange things, it might be<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">something worthwhile to investigate.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">My initial guess from the plots is that there is something wrong with the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">forward model. All unit problems should have been resolved, but just to be<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">sure you could check whether all objects are in the same unit (make it 'cm'<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">as the grads are).<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Best,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Jörn<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Charidimos Tzagarakis wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Eelke,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Thinking again about my second suggestion (regarding individual<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">variability) I actually can't think of a case where this could realistically<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">produce what you get. On the other hand, looking at TF maps per subject and<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">channel (on the "helmet" layout), normalised with a "rest" epoch, may help<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">spot something unusual.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Best,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Haris<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Charidimos [Haris] Tzagarakis MD, PhD, MRCPsych<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">University of Minnesota Dept of Neuroscience and Brain Sciences Center<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">On 21 November 2013 18:09, Charidimos Tzagarakis <<a href="mailto:haristz@gmail.com">haristz@gmail.com</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><<a href="mailto:haristz@gmail.com">mailto:haristz@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Hi Eelke,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Provided there is no major recent revision of the DICS code, I<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> would have expected motor desynchronisation to show up pretty<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> well. Are the maps shown at source and channel level straight<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> differences of L and Right hand conditions at the beta band (I<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> hope I am correctly interpreting your paradigm) ? If so it might<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> be helpful in pinpointing the problem/as a sanity check to see<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> what happens when you use beta desynchonisation (ie change<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> relative to the baseline) instead for each condition, and see<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> source/channel maps of that separately for L and R and then when<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> you take the difference. I suppose the main element this checks<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> for is whether L and R conditions have the same baseline.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> This doesn't immediately explain why source and channel results<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> are different but in the absence of any other clues it may be a<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> way to 2ble check the whole process.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Another point to consider is that, although beta changes should<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> appear in all subjects, it is possibly true that there are<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> individual differences in the actual beta range and frequency bin<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> of maximum effect. If you are using the same settings for all<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> subjects when you beamform with DICS you may be missing some of<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> the effect (true, this is also the case for channel data but there<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> may be subtle differences that add up - there are many voxels and<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> few channels). I believe it may be useful to see what happens when<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> you run the beamformer tailored to each subject's particular beta<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> characteristics (ie change the "foi" for each subject, keep the<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> tapsmofrq the same - possibly smaller) and then combine everything<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> (you'll need of course to come up with a relative metric such as<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> perc. change when you combine all subjects to account for the<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> slightly different frequencies you used )<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Best,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Haris<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Charidimos [Haris] Tzagarakis MD, PhD, MRCPsych<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> University of Minnesota Dept of Neuroscience and Brain Sciences Center<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> On 21 November 2013 10:36, Eelke Spaak <<a href="mailto:eelke.spaak@donders.ru.nl">eelke.spaak@donders.ru.nl</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> <<a href="mailto:eelke.spaak@donders.ru.nl">mailto:eelke.spaak@donders.ru.nl</a>>> wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Fellow FieldTrippers,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Currently I am looking at a contrast for left- versus<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> right-hand index<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> finger button presses. As expected, on sensor level (combined<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> planar<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> gradient, grand average) I see a clear lateralisation in beta band<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> power starting at least 0.5s before the button press (see<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="https://db.tt/Rtch3Qjy">https://db.tt/Rtch3Qjy</a>). Both 'blobs' are significant; there is<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> clearly more beta power ipsilateral to the response hand. I would<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> prefer to do further analyses on source level, so I attempt to<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> reconstruct the sources for this effect using DICS beamformer<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> (common<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> filter, applied to both conditions separately; fixedori and<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> realfilter<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> = 'yes'). The grand average results for this (again contrast<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> left vs<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> right response hand) are shown at <a href="https://db.tt/IBQZG0d8">https://db.tt/IBQZG0d8</a> .<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> (Ignore the<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> R/L-flip, this is radiological convention.)<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> As you can see, the source level solution is much more blurry<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> than on<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> sensor level. This picture is without using any regularisation<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> (lambda<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> parameter), the results are even worse when I use lambda =<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> '5%'. The<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> negative blob (right hand higher power than left) becomes<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> 'marginally<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> significant' on source level (p ~ 0.06) where it was p < 0.001 on<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> sensor level. The positive blob is nowhere near significant.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Also, the<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> individual results are much less topographically consistent on<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> source<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> than on sensor level (explaining the worse statistics).<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> I have checked the segmentation of my MRIs, the 'gray' seems to be<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> nicely within the head all the time. Also, I have manually<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> verified<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> the alignment of headmodel, sourcemodel, and gradiometer<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> information<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> for all subjects.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> As a final note, the above sensor-level plot was taken from a<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> 'slice'<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> out of a planar-gradient time-frequency analysis (mtmconvol). The<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> ingredient for the beamformer was an mtmfft fourier spectrum<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> on the<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> axial gradiometer data, obtained for just the time-frequency<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> range of<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> interest (subselect toilim [-0.5 0], mtmfft foi = 23,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> tapsmofrq = 7).<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> When I compute condition-averaged power based on these fourier<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> spectra<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> and look at the contrast, the results are again as expected:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="https://db.tt/n2P3UKcQ">https://db.tt/n2P3UKcQ</a> (of course less localised because of axial<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> gradient vs planar). The freq structures underlying this<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> contrast are<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> exactly the same as those going into ft_sourceanalysis, so the<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> problem<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> must be in the source analysis step (and/or in the preparation<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> of the<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> geometric information, although these seem fine by visual<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> inspection).<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Does anyone have any idea that might explain these seemingly<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> contradictory results? I would have expected demixing to improve<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> signal-to-noise ratio, rather than worsen it.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Thanks!<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Best,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Eelke<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> _______________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> fieldtrip mailing list<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="mailto:fieldtrip@donders.ru.nl">fieldtrip@donders.ru.nl</a> <<a href="mailto:fieldtrip@donders.ru.nl">mailto:fieldtrip@donders.ru.nl</a>><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="http://mailman.science.ru.nl/mailman/listinfo/fieldtrip">http://mailman.science.ru.nl/mailman/listinfo/fieldtrip</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">------------------------------------------------------------------------<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">fieldtrip mailing list<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:fieldtrip@donders.ru.nl">fieldtrip@donders.ru.nl</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://mailman.science.ru.nl/mailman/listinfo/fieldtrip">http://mailman.science.ru.nl/mailman/listinfo/fieldtrip</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">fieldtrip mailing list<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:fieldtrip@donders.ru.nl">fieldtrip@donders.ru.nl</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://mailman.science.ru.nl/mailman/listinfo/fieldtrip">http://mailman.science.ru.nl/mailman/listinfo/fieldtrip</a><br></blockquote><br>_______________________________________________<br>fieldtrip mailing list<br><a href="mailto:fieldtrip@donders.ru.nl">fieldtrip@donders.ru.nl</a><br>http://mailman.science.ru.nl/mailman/listinfo/fieldtrip<br></div></blockquote></div><br><div>
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letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>Jan-Mathijs Schoffelen, MD PhD </div><div><br></div><div>Donders Institute for Brain, Cognition and Behaviour, <br>Centre for Cognitive Neuroimaging,<br>Radboud University Nijmegen, The Netherlands</div><div><br></div><div>Max Planck Institute for Psycholinguistics,</div><div>Nijmegen, The Netherlands</div><div><br></div><div><a href="mailto:J.Schoffelen@donders.ru.nl">J.Schoffelen@donders.ru.nl</a></div><div>Telephone: +31-24-3614793</div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.hettaligebrein.nl">http://www.hettaligebrein.nl</a></div></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></span>
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