<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div>Begin forwarded message:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" color="#000000" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><b>From: </b></font><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">"Dr. Georges Otte" <<a href="mailto:georges.otte@telenet.be">georges.otte@telenet.be</a>></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" color="#000000" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><b>Date: </b></font><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">1 October 2009 13:49:13 GMT+02:00</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" color="#000000" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><b>To: </b></font><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica"><a href="mailto:r.oostenveld@FCDONDERS.RU.NL">r.oostenveld@FCDONDERS.RU.NL</a></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" color="#000000" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><b>Subject: </b></font><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica"><b>reference</b></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div> </div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div lang="NL" link="blue" vlink="purple"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PersonName"><div class="Section1"><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13px; ">... </span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; ">I have followed the discussion on reference and already contacted Dien. I agree but what about non ERP data ? Phase information and coherence. Can we safely use the averaged common reference for that. Robert Thatcher (neuroguide) quoting rappelsberger is opoosed to it and shows in his neuroguide package that in small channel systems (19-22) a ACR scrambles phase information between channels.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; ">Sincerely<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; ">Dr.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><st1:personname productid="Georges Otte" w:st="on">Georges Otte</st1:personname><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; ">P.C dr. Guislain instit<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; ">Gent<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; ">Belgium<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; ">PS How can I get back on the list ?<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 35.4pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; text-indent: -35.4pt; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; ">Ransscipt<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">no problem! I haven't been working in the frequency domain and am not very familiar with spectral analyses so I can't say. Sorry!<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">Joe<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">On Sep 30, 2009, at 2:20 AM, Dr.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><st1:personname productid="Georges Otte" w:st="on">Georges Otte</st1:personname><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><o:smarttagtype name="PersonName" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags">If the reference is not close to zero (fi using an average reference on to low an electrodeset fi 19 ch with prefrontal channels likely to be contaminated by occasional quite lagre eye blink or eye movement artifacts) what would be the effect on phase calculations ? From point to point the reference value that is substracted from each channel would be different from zero. Would that not wreck havoc to interchannel phase information or post stimulus coherence mapping ? Untrusthworthy ?<o:p></o:p></o:smarttagtype></span></font><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">Same qyuestion: if people use PCA or ICA to eliminate these artifacts and inverse reconstruct their EEG, can they still rely on phase calculations without errors ?<o:p></o:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><st1:personname u1:st="on" productid="Georges Otte"><st1:personname productid="Georges Otte" w:st="on"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">Georges Otte</span></font></st1:personname></st1:personname><o:p></o:p></div><o:p></o:p><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; ">PS Sorry to mail You personally but for some reason (perhaps change of email adres or long period of inactivity ) I seem to be cutoff from the fieldtrip listserv<o:p></o:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 35.4pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; text-indent: -35.4pt; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div></div></o:smarttagtype></div></span></blockquote></div><br></body></html><p>----------------------------------</p>
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